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Tanks and Ethanol.
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jjdugen
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Joined: 27 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Tanks and Ethanol. Reply with quote

Hi all.
First post so be gentle!!!
I'm a bit concerned about the tank warpage due to Ethanol. (I do repairs /servicing) and had this on a KTM 990 that came in. It took a hefty dose of leverage to squeeze the tank back onto it mounting points.
The Falco I have just bought 'looks' to be OK, the PO only used 98 ron in it and I do with all mine, as a matter of course. Is it all 'modern' fuels that cause the warpage or just the 95 grades?

Cheers
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mangocrazy
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008
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Location: Sheffield, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mate, and welcome! The general consensus is that 98 RON fuel has less ethanol than 95 RON (or possibly none), but getting definitive information of this type is very difficult, if not impossible. I always use 98 RON fuel, and my tank still just about fits OK. To be honest, I think they were a bit marginal in the fitting stakes from new, and ethanol just tips it over the edge. And sometimes well beyond...

One of the things on my Round Tuit list is to try and re-work the tank fitting arrangement to give myself more slack, but it hasn't quite happened yet.
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blinkey501
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Joined: 29 May 2011
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Location: near doncaster

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have in the past had to do a repair to one of the breather pipes in the tank from the filler overflow to the base of the tank

I now have to do the other.

Ethanol strips out the protective layer inside the tank.

This is the thread.

http://www.ridersite.ws/rs/viewtopic.php?t=12079&highlight=overflow+pipe
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D-Rider
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This problem is the reason why some of us had ethanol resistant carbon fibre tanks made up.
    * Defeats the ethanol problem
    * Increases tank capacity due to thinner tank walls
    * Comes with undeniable bling factor as a bonus feature
    * Is a bit of a bank-balance-reducer

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jjdugen
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Joined: 27 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. Strange that the Cagiva Raptor we have does not seem to suffer, neither did the Triumph Sprint. I know all about Ducati's woes and, as mentioned, the KTM's. Must be something in the formulation of the plastics that some suffer and some seem immune. I suppose the ideal solution would be a steel tank, not that anyone is going to produce such a small demand item.
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blinkey501
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-Rider wrote:
This problem is the reason why some of us had ethanol resistant carbon fibre tanks made up.
    * Defeats the ethanol problem
    * Increases tank capacity due to thinner tank walls
    * Comes with undeniable bling factor as a bonus feature
    * Is a bit of a bank-balance-reducer

The tanks look awsome.
But I can't justify that much for a tank. Well not yet anyway.
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Greg
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW I've slotted the rear tank mounts a bit to allow an extra couple of mm movement..
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D-Rider
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg wrote:
FWIW I've slotted the rear tank mounts a bit to allow an extra couple of mm movement..


I slotted everything that could be slotted and still ran out of adjustment.
It's a short term "fix" to put off the evil day ....
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mangocrazy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
I suppose the ideal solution would be a steel tank, not that anyone is going to produce such a small demand item.

Unfortunately ethanol attracts water and cause the insides of steel tanks to rust. My old VFR has a steel tank and that remained rust-free internally until I started using petrol with ethanol in it. It now has a fine surface coating of rust.

Apart from the aforementioned carbon tanks, the only other material that is immune would be marine grade stainless steel (316/A4).
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BikerGran
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Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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Location: Any further south and I'd fall off!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kn ow this is a VERY old thread, and maybe this is old news too, but I saw this on Facebook today and thought it might be of interest.

Quote:
ETHANOL
HI folks I have it official. As it is well documented Ethanol eats our plastic tanks and makes them swell.
I email Esso yesterday asking about their Ethanol content in fuel. I got the following response 😉

Dear Mr. ....,

Thank you for contacting Esso Customer Care.

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland) and we have no current intention to add ethanol to Synergy Supreme+ in other areas of the UK.

We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

Yours sincerely,

Daniel Jankovits
End Consumer & Customer Care Assistant
Customer Service, Fuels & Lubricants, EAME

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fatboy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is straight to the point......
Lets us know what dirty shit to avoid putting in your tank !
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DavShill
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: Beverley, East Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price of a new tank from a dealer in the uk is circa £1700 !!!
AF1 in Texas have a small number of new old stock (Silver with the red flash) they are selling at $275.
Shipping is about $175 then you need to add the duty and VAT. All together comes out at around £400 ish. A massive saving on the uk price but will still be subject the effects of ethanol over time.

My brother is in Austin Texas in a couple of weeks and I am investigating the possibility of him collecting one and putting on the band's freight transport consignment home.
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micah
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased one of the new tanks from AF1, which I then coated with a treatment from Caswell. It’s been on the bike now for about 7 months, running 10% ethanol blend (I’m in the States). The tank has not expanded at all.
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mangocrazy
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 3301
Location: Sheffield, UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

micah wrote:
I purchased one of the new tanks from AF1, which I then coated with a treatment from Caswell. It’s been on the bike now for about 7 months, running 10% ethanol blend (I’m in the States). The tank has not expanded at all.

Nice one - that's the way to do it, I think. New tank, tank-lining treatment from new and before a drop of petrol has passed through it. I guess AF1 will run out of tanks pretty quickly...
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fatboy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavShill wrote:
The price of a new tank from a dealer in the uk is circa £1700 !!!
AF1 in Texas have a small number of new old stock (Silver with the red flash) they are selling at $275.
Shipping is about $175 then you need to add the duty and VAT. All together comes out at around £400 ish. A massive saving on the uk price but will still be subject the effects of ethanol over time.

My brother is in Austin Texas in a couple of weeks and I am investigating the possibility of him collecting one and putting on the band's freight transport consignment home.

Could that be made two tanks in the band luggage ?
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