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Group Buy ??

 
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D-Rider
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject: Group Buy ?? Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Sorry I've not been round that much lately - life has been a bit busy.

Preamble:
    One of the many projects that has been keeping me busy is that I've been building a new Garage/Workshop and it's nearly finished.
    I promised myself that when its done, I'll treat myself to a hydraulic workbench as working on my bikes on the floor is less fun than it used to be.

    I was originally looking at the big table-type things .... but they do take up a lot of space.
    I was then attracted to the things like the Abba SkyLift - especially when I saw that the AP Workshop Facebook Group were exploring a Group Buy (those SkyLifts are pretty pricey).
    I was put off of this when I discovered that of all the bikes in our household, the Falco is the only one the SkyLift can be used for. I need something that can cope with my Aprilias, a couple of classic Hondas and my son's maxi scooter
    I've searched a bit further and discovered .....


Idea:
    A company called Quasar Products produces a "SkyLift" style product that appears more robust, claims to work with any bike (with adapters), and is a better price.
    They are located in Tamworth and have been building these things for many, many years. My spies in Tamworth have no direct experience of them but have heard no cautionary tales.

    So, I'll probably be going for one.
    Knowing that many of the people on Ridersite are probably not as keen as they once were to be working on the floor and have a variety of bikes (collectively and some individually), I wondered if there would be any interest in exploring the possibility of a Group Buy to get the costs down (or the various adapters thrown in or something).

    I've not contacted the company yet as I thought I'd:
      a) check there are still people on the forum
      b) whether there is any interest.


    Here is the company's website:
    https://on-bike.com/motorcycle-lifts/sports-superbike-lift

    The one I'm looking at is the EazyRizer Red (the cheaper one)


Please let me know what you think
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fatboy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I think.....
That is an awesome bit of kit at a sensible price, it is really only 3 times the price of a basic Abba stand , less than 3 times the price if you buy the front lift kit ect.
Interested !
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mangocrazy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It certainly looks a solid piece of kit, but unfortunately (for the group buy) I've already shelled out on an Abba Sky Lift a few years back. I'm surprised that the Abba doesn't have fitting inserts for Andy's Hondas, perhaps slightly less so that they don't cater for his son's Maxi-scooter.

From what I can see in the video, the EazyRizer does some of what the SkyLift can do, at a significantly lower price point, which seems about right. I'd make the following points:

1. I'd like to know more about how the 'moving the EazyRizer about with a bike attached' works. Are there some hidden castors involved, or does it just rely on the exceptionally smooth finish of the power-floated floor in the video? The Sky lift has lockable external castors that make it a breeze to move around even on my rather pitted shed floor.

2. The Sky lift can raise the bike in 3 'attitudes' - level (like the EazyRizer), or in the 'stoppie' or 'wheelie' position. I used the stoppie position to remove the shock on my KTM Duke and can't honestly imagine how I would have done it without that capability. Having those extra modes really makes doing difficult jobs actually quite simple.

3. The Sky Lift can raise the bike significantly higher than the EazyRizer - about 50% higher, I'd estimate. This is almost certainly due to the additional footprint of the Sky Lift - the base sticks out significantly more than the EazyRizer in all directions, so is more stable. But it takes up more floor space.

4. The hydraulic ram on the Sky Lift is ridiculously over-specified and will hold a bike in the raised position for a long time without any droop. Even so, the Sky Lift has two holes in the main beam where you can insert a peg to hold the bike at a pre-set height without needing to trust the hydraulics. But being conscious of this, before I fully assembled my Sky Lift, I took the main beam to an engineering shop near me and asked them to drill additional holes in the beam at 50mm intervals so I can peg the lift at pretty much any height between minimum and maximum.

5. If you subscribe to Abba's mailing list they will (from time to time) make you aware of special reduced prices. I presume they offer this when stock is high and orders are slowing. I bought mine on one of these offers and got (from memory) about £80 off the list price.

If I didn't have the Sky Lift I would seriously consider the EazyRizer, especially in view of the price differential. But having used the Sky Lift over a period of years, I've come to appreciate its versatility. And recently I've overcome what I did regard as a major drawback - storing the damn thing when not in use. I've come up with a solution for wall mounting all the parts of the device bar the main beam and hydraulic ram, and that can fit comfortably between my parts washer and some racking. I'd need to take a photo and post it up rather than try to explain. If anyone is interested, let me know.

Don't let my comments put anyone off the Eazy Rizer, but I just wanted to give the Sky Lift side of the story.
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D-Rider
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mangocrazy wrote:
It certainly looks a solid piece of kit, but unfortunately (for the group buy) I've already shelled out on an Abba Sky Lift a few years back. I'm surprised that the Abba doesn't have fitting inserts for Andy's Hondas, perhaps slightly less so that they don't cater for his son's Maxi-scooter.


This is Abba's fitment list:


The SkyLift list doesn't include the Futura - though I don't understand why it wouldn't work with it but given the EazyRizer Ebay listing shows a Futura being lifted, I'll be more inclined to go with that certainty.



No early to mid '70s Honda are shown and given that they have solid swinging arm pivots I think they won't work.


mangocrazy wrote:

From what I can see in the video, the EazyRizer does some of what the SkyLift can do, at a significantly lower price point, which seems about right. I'd make the following points:

1. I'd like to know more about how the 'moving the EazyRizer about with a bike attached' works. Are there some hidden castors involved, or does it just rely on the exceptionally smooth finish of the power-floated floor in the video? The Sky lift has lockable external castors that make it a breeze to move around even on my rather pitted shed floor.


The EazyRizer video, confirms it as "wheels free" and looks as though it just slides on the floor. The ease with which the people demonstrate its movement suggest it's not at all difficult - but their floor does look smooth.
The question is, how important is it that you can move it?
Definitely going to be easier than working on the ground with an Abba or Ulti-Pro stand. I guess the lack of castors depends on your personal desire for castors. Could probably fit some to it if it were a problem.




mangocrazy wrote:

2. The Sky lift can raise the bike in 3 'attitudes' - level (like the EazyRizer), or in the 'stoppie' or 'wheelie' position. I used the stoppie position to remove the shock on my KTM Duke and can't honestly imagine how I would have done it without that capability. Having those extra modes really makes doing difficult jobs actually quite simple.


Yes, I had noted the Skylift can adopt 3 "attitudes" through deployment of a strap.
I can see that this could be useful.
Obviously the EazyRizer can do the level position very competently. I'm also convinced that it can use the same technique as the SkyLift to facilitate the wheelie position using a robust tie-down strap on the base of the stand.
What isn't so obvious is how it might do the Stoppie position. My thoughts were that I can probably figure out something if I need to but would have to get one first to consider how to do it. Success, of course, is not guaranteed.
That said, I've removed my Falco's shock many times on the ground where the bike is flat. Sounds as though the KTM is more of a problem.

mangocrazy wrote:

3. The Sky Lift can raise the bike significantly higher than the EazyRizer - about 50% higher, I'd estimate. This is almost certainly due to the additional footprint of the Sky Lift - the base sticks out significantly more than the EazyRizer in all directions, so is more stable. But it takes up more floor space.


Are you sure? Looking at the pictures and videos, they both appear to lift to a similar height Sadly I can't find any numbers to support this.

SkyLift:


EazyRizer:


I think they are very similar.

mangocrazy wrote:

4. The hydraulic ram on the Sky Lift is ridiculously over-specified and will hold a bike in the raised position for a long time without any droop. Even so, the Sky Lift has two holes in the main beam where you can insert a peg to hold the bike at a pre-set height without needing to trust the hydraulics. But being conscious of this, before I fully assembled my Sky Lift, I took the main beam to an engineering shop near me and asked them to drill additional holes in the beam at 50mm intervals so I can peg the lift at pretty much any height between minimum and maximum.


The EazyRizer doesn't use hydraulics but a worm drive that you rotate with an electric drill (though if one of those were not available, a ratchet drive from a socket set would do the job). Obviously a virtue of worm drives is that they don't move after you stop turning them.
It has a natty little feature where you can apply a padlock when raised right up to add theft security.

mangocrazy wrote:

5. If you subscribe to Abba's mailing list they will (from time to time) make you aware of special reduced prices. I presume they offer this when stock is high and orders are slowing. I bought mine on one of these offers and got (from memory) about £80 off the list price.

If I didn't have the Sky Lift I would seriously consider the EazyRizer, especially in view of the price differential. But having used the Sky Lift over a period of years, I've come to appreciate its versatility. And recently I've overcome what I did regard as a major drawback - storing the damn thing when not in use. I've come up with a solution for wall mounting all the parts of the device bar the main beam and hydraulic ram, and that can fit comfortably between my parts washer and some racking. I'd need to take a photo and post it up rather than try to explain. If anyone is interested, let me know.

Don't let my comments put anyone off the Eazy Rizer, but I just wanted to give the Sky Lift side of the story.


Yes - and I heard that Abba offer good Group Buy discounts. They are looking into this on the AP Workshop Facebook page - it was that which started me looking at the SkyLift .... and when I found it couldn't work with all our bikes, started looking further.

Certainly the SkyLift is a good bit of kit but the fact that the EazyRizer should work with all my family's bikes, looks significantly more robust and that the starting price is significantly less, I think it's a good option for me.

Glad to see Fatboy is interested - though we'd need a few others to approach them about a Group Buy ....

If anyone has any interest, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not dissing the EazyRizer - like I said, if I didn't already have a Sky Lift it would definitely be a contender. But I'll just address a few points that Andy has raised.

I fully accept that a Sky Lift (or Abba stand) swingarm mount points won't fit every bike ever made (older bikes with 'solid' swingarm pivots being the obvious case), but it's probably not as well known that Abba provide fitment kits that use footrest mounting points so swingarms can be removed and worked on. These kits screw into footrest mounting points in place of the standard M8/M10/M12 bolts.

https://abbastands.co.uk/product-detail.asp?item=swing-arm-removal-kit&pid=21

With any luck, these might accommodate older Hondas and would certainly work on the Futura. Not sure about Maxi-scooters, though. When replying to Andy's other points I'll stick to to my original numbering system for ease of reading (and commenting!).

1. I'd say that the ability to move a Sky Lift mounted bike around the shed/garage is one of its major advantages. Just being able to get the bike out of the way, move it to a better spot (nearer a power point etc.) is really handy and a major selling point. I still have reservations as to how truly movable an EazyRizer is when fully loaded. The floor surface in the video was glass-like in its perfection, which made it appear simple. I wonder how many of us have a floor surface like that in their shed/garage? I certainly don't.

2. Once again, this is something anyone considering the purchase of a Sky Lift or Eazy Rizer will have to decide upon. How much are these extra functions worth to you? I've certainly found it useful. Kudos to Andy if he can reverse-engineer these functions on to an Eazy Rizer.

3. I don't have any figures for that either. It was just a 'seat of the pants' guesstimate that may well be incorrect. My Sky Lift is currently dismantled and packed away, so I can't pop out to the shed and check. Call it a score draw...

4. Using mechanical means to raise the Eazy Rizer has a lot of advantages - it's cheaper to manufacture (which can be reflected in the cost price), it's infinitely adjustable and it stops wherever you want it to without needing to peg it in place. My comment was simply to point out the over-engineered nature of the hydraulic ram on the Sky Lift (which undoubtedly adds to its cost).

I'd take issue with Andy's assertion that the Eazy Rizer is significantly more robust than the Sky Lift - the delivered weight of the Sky Lift made it a 2 man job to get the (humungous) package from the delivery van to my shed. I'd say the Sky Lift is at least as robust as the Eazy Rizer, and probably more so.

So basically it's a case of how does the price differential (£340 for the Eazy Rizer, £437 for the Sky Lift) match up to the difference in capabilities between the two products. Assuming all other points are equal, is it worth paying an extra £100 to be able to move the plot around your shed/garage with a bike loaded on it, along with the wheelie/stoppie position capability? I'm confident that the Abba swingarm removal kit levels the playing field in terms of bikes that can be accommodated (or at least makes it less of a showstopper).

Of course, if enough people sign up to a Group Buy on the Eazy Rizer that would increase the price differential and probably tip the balance for many folk.
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D-Rider
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't misunderstand Graham - I wasn't trying to argue the toss as much as say how things seemed to me.
I've no experience of either - just saying why I am seriously considering the EazyRizer

Seems unlikely we're going to get enough for a group buy anyway.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-Rider wrote:
Don't misunderstand Graham - I wasn't trying to argue the toss as much as say how things seemed to me.
I've no experience of either - just saying why I am seriously considering the EazyRizer

Seems unlikely we're going to get enough for a group buy anyway.

Yes, likewise. I was flying blind when I bought the Sky Lift and would have appreciated a run down of its plus and minus points before I committed. As it is, I'm happy with it At least anyone considering a purchase has seen a full discussion of the pros and cons of both products.

Shame about the numbers - but then I wonder how many people regularly check in here. It's probably only single figures.
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